00:00:05:03 – 00:00:33:08 

MAPS 

Welcome to this episode of the Medical Affairs Professional Society podcast “Elevate”. The views expressed in this recording are those of the individuals, and do not necessarily reflect on the opinions of MAPS or the companies with which they are affiliated. This presentation is for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal or regulatory advice. And now for today’s “Elevate” episode. 

00:00:33:10 

Chris Turner 

Hello everyone, and welcome back to our three-part podcast series on leading during times of change. I’m Chris Turner, and I’m thrilled to have you with us for our final episode. In episode one, we explored why change feels so relentless and we walked through a simple but powerful leadership approach. Honor the past. Celebrate the present, and embrace the future. In episode two, we focused on resilience and what it truly means in Medical Affairs, and how leaders and teams can develop resilience in a world where velocity and complexity of change just are constantly, constantly accelerating. And today, we’re going to try to bring everything together with one of the most important leadership capabilities of all, trust. Specifically, we’re going to break down Maister Green and Guilford’s trust equation and talk about how to build and maintain trust with your teams, your peers and partners across the organization during times of uncertainty. Once again, I’m thrilled to be joined by our outstanding guest, Doctor Stephen Kagan and Sejal Motwane. Stephen and Sejal, please welcome back. Before we dive into trust, let’s do a quick recap. Steve, back in episode one, what stands out to you? 

00:01:42:23 

Stephen Kagan 

I think what resonated most was the idea of creating space between honoring the past, celebrating the present, and embracing the future. That neutral space matters. It supports reflection. It reduces defensiveness. It helps people mentally move from what was to what is and what could be. Especially during change, people need that time to catch up emotionally. 

00:02:11:15 

Chris Turner 

And there’s a lot going on for our teams, both internally across the industry and really everywhere in our world. So thank you for that. And Sejal, when you think about episode two and resilience, what’s the key message you want listeners to bring into today’s conversation? 

00:02:26:10 

Sejal Motwane 

That resilience isn’t just bouncing back. It’s the capacity to stay grounded, purposeful, and connected during disruption. And leaders play a huge role in that by creating psychological safety, modeling practical optimism and supporting people as they navigate uncertainty. Trust is what makes that possible. So today’s topic really means a lot to me personally as we build on the foundation we set in the last two podcasts. 

00:02:50:14 

Chris Turner 

Sejal, that’s a perfect set up for us, because today I want to ask you the question, how do leaders build trust when everything around you in the team is shifting? For that, we’re going to look at Maister’s trust equation. And that breaks trust into four components… credibility, reliability, intimacy and self orientation. Let’s walk through these one at a time. Steve. When you think about credibility, what does that mean for leaders in Medical Affairs? 

00:03:16:05 

Stephen Kagan 

Chris. Credibility is about what we say and whether people believe that we have the expertise and judgment to back it up. In Medical Affairs, credibility often comes from scientific rigor, from our clinical experience and our ability to lead with great clarity. But it’s also about humility. Credibility doesn’t mean having all the answers. It means being honest about what you do and what you don’t do. What you know and what you don’t know. Especially during change. 

00:03:48:18 

Chris Turner 

Sejal,  in your work with leaders and teams, how does credibility show up with them? 

00:03:53:16 

Sejal Motwane 

I see it show up in how consistently leaders communicate. People listen when a leader’s words match their actions, even saying, ‘here’s what I know right now, and here’s what I don’t know yet,’ builds credibility. Transpearency, especially during change, is credibility in action. 

00:04:12:07 

Chris Turner 

Great. Sejal, I’ll keep you on this. Tell me about reliability. How do you think about reliability? 

00:04:19:02 

Sejal Motwane 

Yeah, this is a great one because  reliability focuses on what we do. It’s our follow through. Do we do what we said we do consistently, predictably, and calmly during times of change. Reliability matters even more because people are looking for anchors and stability. A leader who keeps even their smallest commitments builds trust faster than the leader who makes big promises and just can’t deliver. 

00:04:45:15 

Stephen Kagan 

Chris and Sejal, I’ll also add that reliability isn’t all about perfection. It’s  about steadiness. Showing up. Keeping routines. Communicating proactively. Communicating clearly and regularly in an unpredictable environment. The leader’s reliability creates emotional stability for that team. 

00:05:08:08 

Chris Turner 

Great. I think those first two make a lot of sense in my work. The third one, I think, is where leaders sometimes are the most unsure. And that’s intimacy. When I’m coaching leaders, that’s the one where I get the funny faces. Steve, how do you help leaders think about intimacy as part of the trust equation? 

00:05:25:16 

Stephen Kagan 

I like to say that intimacy is really about what Sejal mentioned earlier… psychological safety. It’s about creating an environment where people feel safe to speak openly with you. It’s created through empathy, through listening, active listening. Through ensuring confidentiality and especially through that human connection. When a leader genuinely cares about the well-being of their colleagues, remembering something personal… Following up on a concern or by simply asking how are you really doing? Trust deepens and opens that path. That path for team members to follow where you’re trying to lead them. 

00:06:09:18 

Sejal Motwane 

I’ll add, Steve, and I think it’s important to and worth mentioning that intimacy isn’t about being best friends with everyone. It’s about being someone people feel comfortable being honest with. When teams feel safe being transparent, leaders get better information and can navigate change with fewer surprises. 

00:06:29:06 

Chris Turner 

Great. So, when we think about the trust equation, we think about those three elements. And they add together credibility, reliability and intimacy. They all add up to trust. The fourth piece is really about how we erode trust. And that’s self orientation in Maister Greene and Guilford’s work. It’s the denominator of the equation. So the higher your self orientation the lower the trust with your team. So, what does that look like in practice. 

00:06:55:00 

Sejal Motwane 

Yeah, it’s important to remember that self orientation is about where the focus is. Who are you focused on? High self orientation which again as you just mentioned it erodes trust. Sounds like how does this affect me. Or what’s in it for me. Oppositely low self  orientation which is where we should be. It sounds like what does my team or you need right now? It’s where the focus is during the  change. People can immediately tell when a leader is focused on their own image or agenda instead of supporting the team. 

00:07:30:18 

Stephen Kagan 

It’s it’s so true. Sejal, I’ve always said that leadership is essentially a service profession. When leaders shift from self-interest to colleague interest and team interest, trust grows very quickly. And ironically, that shift also improves performance, because teams follow leaders who are in it with them, not above them. 

00:07:55:16 

Chris Turner 

So let’s make this really practical. How can leaders dealing with uncertainty and dealing with the velocity of change. How can they build trust during these times of uncertainty? 

00:08:06:15 

Stephen Kagan 

When I coach leaders, Chris, I have them adapt hopefully to three simple behaviors. The first is say what you mean. Which builds credibility. The second, do what you say. Which means building reliability. And the third is be human, which is the core, as we already mentioned, of intimacy. And always keep your self-orientation low. Make it about the mission, about the patients, about the team and about the individual who’s standing in front of you. So much falls into place when you focus on them and grow the people around you. 

00:08:48:08 

Sejal Motwane 

Steve, I love those and I’d like to add three more if I may. The first one is think about creating space for people to ask questions. Second one is share information early, even if you don’t have all of it. And number three, which kind of goes back to what we were talking about, celebrating the past, part of change. Show appreciation for effort, not just outcome. Even though as a leader, you’re accountable for outcome, shows that you’re caring for the effort that’s been put in. Trust is not built in a single moment. It’s built through hundreds of small moments. 

00:09:26:18 

Chris Turner 

Thanks, Sejal. As we wrap up this three part series, here are some key ideas that we hope you carry forward from episode one, when we talked about leading through change. Just a reminder, there were three phases and they had an important neutral space between them, as Stephen noted at the beginning of this conversation. The first is Honor the Past. The second is celebrate the present. And only then can we embrace the future. And we have to have neutral space between them so people can get caught up with where we’re trying to go. From episode two, where we talked about resilience, we really focused on the core of building teams that are thriving, not just bouncing back during transition and change. And remember, resilient teams practice practical optimism. They connect with their purpose. They support each other. They focus on what’s in their control, not what’s outside their control. And they take care of their energy. And they maintain a growth mindset and their leaders model all of those behaviors through day to day interactions and their meetings. And from today’s episode, trust. If your team trusts you, they’re going to follow where you lead. And remember, trust is built through credibility, which is honesty and clarity. Reliability, which is you’re going to do what you say. Intimacy, which is a sense of creating psychological safety and empathy. And low self orientation where you’re focused on the team, the individual, your mission, but not your own self. Trust is really the leadership currency that makes all of these change and resilience activities possible. Stephen, Sejal, thank you again for your insight, your wisdom and your partnership as we’ve gone through this series. For our listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey. Leading in change isn’t easy, but with clarity and resilience and trust, we can guide our teams through uncertainty with confidence and care. Before we wrap it up Steve and Sejal, would you like to share a final thought with our listeners? Sejal, can you go first? 

00:11:19:05 

Sejal Motwane 

That’s a hard one, Chris. If I were to leave everyone with one thought, it’s this. Trust is built in every day moments. It’s not the big announcements. It’s not the huge milestones, but it’s the small choices leaders make to listen to pause, to check in, to make sure they’re communicating with honesty and care. When we honor people’s experiences and create space for them to show up authentically in their work, trust becomes the natural outcome. And it’s that trust which steadies teams through a change. 

00:11:56:18 

Stephen Kagan 

Yeah, that that’s so true. Sejal, I would add for me, I’d say that trust, resilience and leadership all come down to being fully intentional. When leaders consistently focus on serving their teams by being present, transparent and and really by being human, they create an environment where people feel safe, they feel supported and ultimately motivated. In times of uncertainty that kind of leadership becomes the anchor everyone needs. Trust isn’t a tool you use. It’s really about a relationship that you build every moment by every moment, as you mentioned. 

00:12:40:00  

Chris Turner 

Thank you both again. And this is such an important topic for leaders. Listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey. Keep leading with clarity, compassion and trust. And we’ll see you next time.