Garth Sundem   00:00

Welcome to this episode of the Medical Affairs Professional Society podcast series: “Elevate”. I’m your host, Garth Sundem, Communications Director at MAPS. And today we’re talking about optimizing investment in medical congresses. Joining us are Carolina Lowe, Associate Vice President Medical Engagement and Capabilities at United Therapeutics Corporation. And Sonja Rivera, Vice President of Veeva link Commercial US. So we are investing greatly in these congresses and thus there is significant pressure to produce at these congresses. So Carolina, can you get us started by giving us an overview of some of the challenges that medical teams face when planning their strategy? How do we get ready for these things? And what should we be ready to do?

Carolina Lowe   00:55

Absolutely, I’m happy to kick us off here. Thanks so much for having me today. And I just would like to start off by saying that the the information that I share today is all my personal views and opinions and not those of my company. And the things that I have learned and garnered over my time in Medical Affairs. I think as we think about some of the biggest challenges that medicals medical teams are facing in planning their Congress. Strategy number one is determining the right conference coverage strategy in general, I think that the sheer volume of Congresses, in particular in the post COVID era has makes it makes it difficult and challenging. I think that when congresses went away or became virtual, the entire industry and the medical community realized how critical they were. And so in the post COVID world, they have bounced back even more so in terms of people attending conferences they didn’t use to attend and the new conferences that are developing. So I think that you really need to look at how you’re going to deploy people and resources to the right conferences, getting the right mix of you know, global national, and then your local regional conferences, going to the conferences that are going to have the highest value for the company. Choosing the conferences where the the healthcare providers that your company works with the most are there. And and really coming up with that plan. I think as far as planning more acutely prior to a conference, I think the the the biggest challenge is because we are doing so much at these conferences, in particular, in terms of customer engagement, that we really need to work cross functionally to have a very cohesive and, and very collaborative plan across medical and commercial and even other functions like r&d, so that our customer engagement is really strategic, and really streamlined and presents our company in a very, a very well planned approach rather than a lot of different isolated invitations for meetings and other events coming at our customers.

Garth Sundem   03:34

Cool, so I mean, going to Congress starts with choosing which Congress’s you’re going to go to and then interesting, that medical strategy, right, you know, from the jump should include the cross functional partners as well. Sonja, what do you see as some of the challenges to planning the strategy for Congress’s?

Sonja Rivera   03:54

Yeah, so based on what Carolina said, and you know, thank you also for having me here today. I do think one of the biggest things is sort of mastering that that cross functional planning aspect. And, you know, we see this because congresses are a huge, huge investment for the customers that I work with much like, you know, Carolyn is experienced as well. And in doing so you have individuals that are attending from medical, you very often have your field medical people that are there, you typically have your marketing leaders or your bu heads that are there. And then also your clinical teams. And each one of them is sort of thinking about number one attending that Congress not just to continue to gain insights as to what’s happening in that specific therapeutic area, but more importantly, to meet those HCPs and those thought leaders where they are there at the Congress and this is a great opportunity for you to really have those one to one engagements with them and have those types of meetings. I think the biggest thing that it sort of starts with is is really figuring out you know, who are those people that are going to be attending the Congress, and then translating that into a much more needed approach for how are we, as a pharmaceutical manager, in fact, you’re going to engage with those thought leaders at the Congress. And, you know, I have examples of customers that have said, hey, you know, I was at a congress and I was speaking with, you know, a thought leader who also happened to be a primary investigator who also happened to be someone that we were trying to put together some ad boards with. And he, this individual said to me, Hey, listen, 14 people from your company have reached out to me for meeting. And I expect more of you, I expect you to be you know, more coordinated, really to to optimize my time. But also to know that I’m a valuable partner with you in really reaching the patients that that you want to reach. And so I do think that that cross functional piece is, is so critical, and being able to identify the people, the right Congress, and then to coordinate across those cross cross functional organizations and teams and people is so critical.

Garth Sundem   06:09

Seems really tricky to decide who gets the meeting? Because I can imagine commercial would want that Kol and medical would want that Kol. And r&d wants that Kol. I mean, how do you pick who had How do you pick who is most strategic in that role? Either either, what do you think?

Carolina Lowe   06:27

One thing that I think is important is for companies to assign a single point of contact for that relationship within the company on the medical side, that tends to fall in field medical, and on the commercial side, that sometimes on the, you know, the thought leader, liaisons, and then and really work through them. These are, you know, these are roles that are really 100% focused on relationship building and management. This person who single points of contact can act as the liaisons between all of the various stakeholders within their functions that want to meet with these k wells. And they can help, they can help set the meetings, they can get the right people at the meetings, and they can help make those difficult choices as to how to prioritize who who needs to meet with this customer the most in this particular conference, with this amount of time and what topics will be covered. And that sometimes means that you can’t have everybody there that’s requesting to meet with this person. And so sometimes you do have to make some some difficult decisions. Because the times that you have with this captive audience at this conference is very precious and needs to be used in a strategic way possible.

Garth Sundem   07:52

Well, Carolina, you bring up the fact that post COVID, we see how important these congresses are, you know, the we’re trying to go to more of them. However, we are in a ecosystem of restricted budgets. So we can’t go to all of them and the ones that we go to, we want to do more, with less. So how do we do more with less? Sonja, what do you think? How do we make the most of our budget at one of these Congress’s?

Sonja Rivera   08:22

Yeah, and, you know, in working with a lot of different customers, this, this, I hear this time and time again, right, our budgets are flat. And we need to do more with less. And I think, number one, for on the Congress side, this really starts with prioritizing and be very strategic about which congresses you want to attend as an organization. And then secondarily, it’s picking the individuals that you want to engage with at that Congress. And this is where I think, you know, where the number of tools and technologies and solutions that that we can potentially arm you know, medical teams with but even across those other functions that we’ve talked about, becomes really powerful. You know, I’ll give you an example. One of my, one of one of my customers the other day, who was an MSL was describing how, you know, they were preparing for a major Congress, and they had, you know, 20 tabs open on their Google, you know, looking up the Congress agenda, but also looking up those experts and they had their CRM open, and they were trying to understand what were the last couple engagements that that their organization had with that individual. And this is really where simplifying those types of capabilities that you’re providing to to make sure that you have that precision identification of what is the Congress, who’s going to be speaking there and who do I want to engage with, you know, as an MSL as a medical director, and ensuring that you’ve got that breadth of that Congress Congress coverage as well. You know, I think Carolina mentioned the importance of not just the the large major congresses in the oncology space, you know, That’s ASCO and ESMO. But it’s really thinking about some of those local congresses or even additional types of opportunities to engage, such as, you know, a local grand, grand rounds or a webinar that potentially is being hosted. And, and that’s really the best, you know, way to really prioritize what that engagement is. And that’s where I think it’s, the more with less is putting the information at the fingertips of the people that need that information and presenting it in a way that is very simple to navigate to find the Congress and the people.

Garth Sundem   10:34

That’s interested in optimizing your budget as optimizing your engagements, I mean, be being prepared, optimizing your information so that you can optimize your engagement so that you can get the most out of each one. I mean, so it’s not spending $750,000 on your VR mechanism of action thing that you’re going to show at the booth. Carolina, what do you think about optimizing your budget for these guys?

Carolina Lowe   10:58

Yeah, so. So I mean, I think Sonja, you made some really, really great points, I think of it as is also optimizing time, as well. So I think you have to really win when choosing how to deploy resources, and budget towards conferences, you have to really ultimately understand and hone in on what is your what is your goal at these conferences is if it is to meet with, with Cowell’s and and our customers, then you should choose the ones that were the K wells are and like Sonja said, those may be international, they may be local or regional. So really understanding the flow and attendance level of the conferences, if that’s your goal, another goal may be to go go collect information on the evolving landscape and the data. And that would be a totally different evaluation. One of the things that I think has worked in the past in terms of doing more with less is combining combining events. For example, at a recent conference, there were two, phase three clinical trial teams that combined together to have a reception for the investigators, instead of trying to have two separate ones on these were two totally different clinical studies. But bringing them together, you know, helped build some economies of scale. And the investigators really enjoyed it and and was very valuable. We also have discussed with compliance ways of compliantly, working along with our field commercial teams at times to have joint receptions with thought leaders, so that the thought leaders can come in and see everybody from the company in an informal networking SEC type of environment, rather than, you know, having five or six separate meetings to accomplish something similar. So so really, you know, working outside the box with compliance to to connect groups of people within the company to the customers. And finally, I’ll say that I have seen this on the increase and up and up recently of having company related events tacked on to conferences, which really helps bring down costs in terms of travel budgets, and it really is appreciated by the kale Wells, who have very limited time. So I see a lot more of that occurring with adboards, investigator meetings, etc.

Garth Sundem   13:30

What another interesting collaboration, cross functional collaboration, and that would be with compliance, to make sure that all of your great plans that you’re putting into your strategy, you can actually execute on. All right, so you’re not doing this on a spreadsheet, I would imagine although Sonja, it sounds like your MSL was pretty close to that with 20 tabs open in their in their Google. There’s got to be easier ways to do this than, you know, combing through the abstracts at ASCO and trying to figure out who in the world is going to be there. And then finding their email address through their home institution and reaching out, you know, I don’t know what through their through their cold email. So I’m thinking technology. And and I’m thinking that and I’m thinking there’s got to be new neat ways to make the most of a medical Congress. Sonja, what do you think? How does technology help us?

Sonja Rivera   14:27

Yes, absolutely. technology and data can can help. You know, one of the first things is it really comes back to this idea of better engagement. Right? And our thought leaders, they have many different roles, as I think we’ve hit on here, right? Especially when they’re interacting with with with my customers, right, the pharmaceutical manufacturers and so, you know, with the right technology, you can very quickly get up to speed on that expert on your MO We’ll devise as an example. So that you are prepared in the example that Carolina gave around, you know, potentially those networking opportunities. If you see someone you know, across the room, a Kol that you want to, to, to meet, you can very quickly, you know, pull up their profile in thought leader identification of profiling software, and really develop a deep understanding of that individual, where are they affiliated? What’s their most recent publication? What are the topic areas that they are, you know, really prolific in? And And lastly, you can also it is possible to understand how is your organization engaging with them, who was the last MSL or potentially sales rep that met with that individual. And that really, it’s, it’s, it’s human nature, right? We, we are engaged better with people that have a genuine interest in us as humans, and know us. And this is really where that technology and data with the deep profiles can can help. You know, I think the second thing we talked about that cross cross functional coordination, it’s really again, sharing having that single single view of the Kol, across all of those functions that are attending, so that everybody is starting from a common view and common sheet of music of that, that thought leader. And then lastly, it’s, you know, having those capabilities that allow you to be a little bit more coordinated in in the planning around those. So how do you act as one organization who is that single point of contact within within your organization that is aligned to that individual, so that you can make sure that you have that viewpoint of how are we as a manufacturer engaging with with this person?

Garth Sundem   16:49

Boy, so much of what we talked about is strategy ahead of time, you know, planning being prepared. It’s amazing that you could have that kind of information about a Kol in real time, someone that you see across the room at the reception that you’ve that you’ve created. What do you think Carolina is, is what let me ask, in a different way? Is technology transformative for the way that medical and even the industry as a whole plans for and executes their Congress activities? Or is it just sort of like, neat to be able to provide a hybrid follow up to stuff? What do you see? Where do you see technology has been really useful?

Carolina Lowe   17:31

I think it is critical, and I think it will be more and more critical as time goes on, especially with AI. AI analyses about the things that are being posted online and digital social media postings about content from the meeting, an impact from the conferences. But I think it’s really critical, I think, to Sonja’s point, before the conference, there’s a big ramp up process, it’s cross functional, to create the strategy and operationalizing. And putting the plans in place to operationalize the conference. And absolutely one of the Kol profiling tools, with the deep profiles are absolutely critical. And, you know, really zoning into on the conference aspect of those tools, because there are kind of bespoke conference profiles that allow you to do some really deep research on your customers. And that was an should be an expectation of all kinds of field based employees prior to going to conferences. When you’re at the conference, one thing that has been very helpful and transformative is having a company specific app designed to tie everybody together in a conference at a large conference, provide everybody with on demand resources, and real time note taking capabilities and information sharing. So those types of apps I think, are very, very transformative. And then on the back end, again, utilizing social media analysis to see what digital opinion leaders are saying what is being reposted about your company’s data, or other key data releases, etc. There’s a lot that’s being put out there in response to large conferences, that is really critical insights for pharmaceutical companies to know about. So those are just a few like, pre during and post aspects that I can think of, but, you know, there’s new technologies being created, now that, you know, are gonna continue to be more transformative. These meetings are becoming so huge and so large in scope, and more and more people from companies are attending so you have to use technology to stay sort of tied together.

Garth Sundem   20:02

And that’s interesting. We spent most of this call talking about the planning stages of these things. But you’re absolutely right that the analysis stage with technology, not only are you able to better plan for congresses, and optimize your time and optimize your knowledge and optimize your engagements, but you’re able to get more out of Congress with various kinds of technology, assisted analyses. All right. Let’s leave it there for today. So thank you, Carolina and Sonja for joining us. To learn more about how your organization can partner with Veeva, visit VEEVA, Veeva.com. MAPS members, don’t forget to subscribe, and we hope you enjoyed this episode of the Medical Affairs Professional Society podcast series: “Elevate”.