Garth Sundem   00:00

Welcome to this episode of the Medical Affairs Professional Society podcast series: “Elevate”. I’m your host, Garth Sundem, Communications Director at MAPS. And today we’re speaking with Bozidar Jovicevic, MD, MBA, former Pharma Executive, CEO and Co-Founder of Evermed. This episode is sponsored by Evermed. So Bozi, we chatted before. And I think that one challenge that our members and the wider Medical Affairs community is now facing is that we know we need to be developing modular content. We know what that is, but we don’t know what to do with it. So what do we do with it? How do we use these Netflix like content hubs to engage KOLs and and leverage the power of this modular content that we know we should be creating?

Bozidar Jovicevic   01:00

Hi, Garth, thanks for so great to talk with you. Again, I’m really excited about chatting with you on this topic. So first of all, modular content is gaining more and more popularity, it’s a really powerful way to scale content by having it in a shorter modular way. And supports more variety of formats. It can be video, audio, PDF, and also works really well for regional and global teams where you have different challenges like languages, things like that. And before that, and one of the things that I’m reasons I’m excited about seeing more and more modular content is that that means that pharma teams are observing the overarching macro trends out there, which is that in this post COVID world, doctors want to engage with content first, and representative from pharma company second. So it’s content first, and rep or MSL second.

Garth Sundem   02:01

And it’s very good to point on that, because I think a lot of our members would say it’s engagement first and content second, is there some sort of shift here in in the way HCPs and Kol? Is want to engage with Medical Affairs in general?

Bozidar Jovicevic   02:16

Yes, there is a shift. And it’s actually a shift that it’s not unique and exclusive to pharma, or doctors. And sometimes when I joined a call with pharma executives, I say, Well, last time you wanted to buy a car or a TV was your first thought, let me call a sales representative or any representative from a Mercedes or Sony, know, you may have talked to a representative. But the first thought was first action was usually let me go online. And let me go online and educate and self educate. And typically, I will go to a third party website. So I’m looking for an honest review trusted review of x. Let’s say I’m buying a Mercedes. So review of Mercedes E Class, I don’t know. So I will get information there. But then I will go to first party content hub of proceeds. So we’ve got two receivers have come knowing that it’s a little bit more biased, they love their products, of course, however, now I have more technical questions. So I’m looking for that information about their product. And after I’m done with that, and I still want to buy this car, then I may reach out to a human being, whatever the role is human being representative from a company and have a more technical conversations, where I’m more informed, more educated, without ask them and maybe ask for a discount. So in the same way that all of us are buying and purchasing anything today is that’s how doctors nowadays, nowadays, especially in the post COVID world, when they experience the benefit of convenience, self service, on demand available and anytime, anywhere content, that’s how they want to interact with content, discover, and potentially adopt new treatments. So and there’s a reason why you say content first, and then human engagement. Second, because you can engage with content as well. Right?

Garth Sundem  04:03

So actually, Bozi let’s take a step back, because, you know, I started saying that every one is comfortable with modular content, but I’m not sure that’s actually the case. You know, we’re comfortable with the idea of modular content, and and how you know, what it should be? It should be the short consumables, but but how do we actually get it? How do companies find the content that becomes modular?

Bozidar Jovicevic   04:32

Yes, great question. Content is a challenging topic because pharma companies or pharma teams know that they need more content, the content first future that I described is there so no matter what we discuss here, content first future is something called is how doctors want to educate and engage. So the question is, where does the content come from? And it’s a scary topic for a lot of pharma executives our estimate Talking to the market every day is that about 85% of pharma teams are content not ready? And about 50%? Are content ready? Now the content not really folks never object, whether more content is needed. They simply are in an early stage and are thinking, How do I even think about module? Or what about content supply chain? How do I tag the content? How do I centralize how they’re organized, how they’re produced how much money I spent, the content ready folks have already aligned internal, they need more content. Now, one other thing I like to throw in is that we see that they’re, you know, across the board, there are three ways to have more content. One, the most difficult one we have most control is to create new content. That’s cost most However, my suggestion recommendation is always never to go to fancy studios nowadays, you can actually create great content remotely and beautify edited, and you know, make sure that it doesn’t cost that much. So the cost the content creation, one is create the other two, yes, that’s great. And the other two are faster. It’s content. Repurposing, and content licensing. content licensing is you go somewhere where there is already content, you licenses such as medical societies, you license a full track on heart failure, let’s say if you have a drug of heart failure, and you say, this is the content, we license from cardiology Association, x, we didn’t touch it within review, it is here. So that’s why that’s called the licensing. And the third one is content, repurposing. If you have 12345 webinars, there is, you know, 12 things you can do with those webinars to turn one webinar into 10 to 20, short form content pieces in a meaningful way, not just cutting them in short pieces. So we recommend that to be the first step. And then licensing and concentration, step two, and three. Oh,

Garth Sundem  06:46

interesting. So repurposing, you’ve spent a year again, we’re going to MAPS relevant things, we have all these webinars, and I can absolutely imagine, I don’t want to say cannibalizing them, but chopping them up into bits, and using them in more consumable short form ways. All right. So content, let’s get back to then now, what do we do with it?

Bozidar Jovicevic   07:09

Yes. So it’s already really hard for most pharma teams to commit to producing content regularly. And sometimes, I see pharma teams that have spent so much time thinking about the content curriculums, Kol type of formats, production, etc, etc, that haven’t spent enough time thinking about the content delivery or content experience, because if you take an amazing content, let’s say it’s a Kol, B’s video series or a library, right, so doctor goes there, sees a trusted Kol, or five trusted KOLs looks at the topic, short form video, let’s say it says, Wow, this is actually excellent topic. It’s a new drug, I’m interested in your clinical data, or maybe this is relating your clinical data. I’m there. But if that content is delivered through a static, outdated, non mobile optimized, clunky, old school website, content could be so amazing, but it’s delivered on a non Netflix like looking experience, doctors usually don’t get frustrated, in 88% of the time, if they don’t have first user experience, they never come back. So they’re lost forever when it comes to the portal or a website. And that’s the reason why content is one part of the whole story. But content delivery, the Netflix like content delivery is another part. And when I say Netflix, like content delivery, I mean, on demand access, anytime, anywhere, anywhere, convenient, personalized, Netflix like so the more content you have, the more personalization is needed. So it doesn’t always look the same. And it’s also intuitive, easy user experience, mobile optimized with a powerful search capability. So don’t end up being frustrated and overwhelmed and leaving, I ended up being happy, joyful, and learning being curious to discover more.

Garth Sundem  09:01

It’s funny. Sometimes on these podcasts, I go in looking for the value for our members who work in pharma and medtech. And what I find is, oh, my gosh, look at all these things that Matt should be doing. And this is actually really resonating with me, because, you know, we are a content producing organization. This podcast is one example of the, I don’t know modular content that we produce. And I’m thinking about how we don’t necessarily offer the Netflix like experience that I would like to offer. So I’m going to be taking notes on best practices here today. What I’m thinking is that what you’re describing in a content delivery and engagement platform, is very much modernized from what I see at almost any pharma site right now. You know, and I wonder if If our focus on modular content brought us only so far, you know, we focus on the content, here’s, here’s the content, that’s going to be great. Here’s all the different, you know, ways we can leverage that to, you know, have different languages and different delivery formats for the same sort of information. But I don’t think we’re landing these platforms yet. So, okay, you’re saying it has to be personalized, it has to be accessible. It has to be Netflix like, so that people can go and self serve themselves with information. So what else? What else about these platforms or best practices? How do we, how do we help these pharma organizations and MAPS create a decent content delivery platform?

Bozidar Jovicevic   10:49

Yes, that’s a great question. So given the current reality, first of all of the teams in Medical Affairs far more or metric is that they usually have some sort of a portal. And usually, it’s more static portal that has different different types of information right now, just Kol base videos, but different types of information. One way to do it without disrupting how things already work, is to not replace an HCP portal. So that’s one use case. But say, Look, we haven’t actually reported a lot of useful information, there’s MedInfo, there’s all kinds of things. But we would like to enrich it with content, that’s Video, Audio PDF, nowadays, rich media, video quality content, very powerful. So one way to do it is to simply embed a modern Netflix like content hub as a feature at the top menu in the Header Menu, and call it a content hub. And then all these content is produced to modular content approach finds its place while a person who’s managing an HCP portal is not getting nervous about, you know, completely shutting down whether your authority works to a certain extent, but actually enriching it to meet the needs of a modern physician. So that’s one way another. Another distinction is mentioned med tech executives. So med tech is a little bit different, because oftentimes, they use more video than Pharma. And oftentimes, they need video to educate doctors about the usage of their devices. So for example, companies like Medtronic would have hundreds of videos just on use of their devices. So however, as of today, we have yet to see lessons designed by us, we have yet to see a content delivery portal Content Hub Kol video channel, no matter how you call it first party owned by pharma, that is personalized, easy to use Netflix like so the need is there, things are moving and progressing. And, you know, my my hope is that, you know, this will happen sooner, sooner rather than later. Because that is an expectation. And that is something I like to stress out. Every doctor the knows what a great user experience looks like. And they expect it, every doctor uses Netflix, Amazon Prime Spotify, in the same way that, you know, folks listening to this are likely on Spotify, Google or an apple, one of the three or on their website. Right. And they know they don’t need any explanation. What does that mean? And so we what we try to do and what when our focus is our company is to make the technology part easier. Because if you think of the big components that are needed, once you have the content, you have curriculum, you have Kol list of cables, you have the topics, you have the length, do you have some sort of editorial calendar, you have module approach and languages? Then you say, how do I deliver it? Well, technology can be overwhelming. And most pharma executives that don’t work in it are not tech experts or software experts. And it’s not their core capability. So instead of building and hiring 2030 people, well, that’s one of the reasons we exist, is they can license the software, customize it to their needs, embed it in integrate to their system like CRM CDP, yes. So and all that and make sure that in 30 to 90 days without hiring any new people folks in it, they can have a network site, Content Hub. And once you have those two things in a much better shape, because you can think more like okay, how do I bring specific doctors? How do I drive media? How do I then, you know, look at the data and see if doctors watch video, one, two, and three, it seems like after they do that they actually click on something and asked to be visited. Now we’re talking about this Mercedes example, because you see exactly what type of content drives high value action, and high value action would be let me connect with this company and learn more.

Garth Sundem  14:42

Oh, so if we were the Mercedes dealer, we would be seeing the information that people are searching through at our hub. And by by recognizing what content people are interacting with. We would then know how to in engage them personally, in a more strategic way.

Bozidar Jovicevic   15:05

Yes. And that’s a really powerful distinction. I would like to throw one other term out, which is first party or first party data. Oh, okay. If you if you have a content in your Medical Affairs professional, and you say I want to create content, XY and Z to engage doctors, and then you’re thinking, okay, how am I, where am I going to deliver the content through which channels, typically, you will think of third party channels, and first party channels, third party channels like landscapes and Doximity. So the worlds are the channels that already have an audience. So you pay them for a click, you pay them for some guaranteed engagements, and then you get it pretty quickly, because they have audiences, they can offer you that, and that those are pros, but the cons are that your key paying, you’re not building your own audience, you keep paying for every click, and you don’t get first party data, right. And that’s becoming worse and worse as we speak, because they’re cookies are going away and all kinds of things. Now, first party data is data you own, those are your own, it will be if it would be a physical world, it’s like someone coming to our house rather than someone else’s house. So our website, the biomedical first professional, have my website, my content hub is my house. So I own the data. And so if I have a doctor, Dr. Wolf, Dr. Mayer, let’s say, watching videos, or read listening to audio, reading publications, or my content hub, is Netflix, like, I have information about what they watch how long they watch, how often do they come back, and we have a way to bring them back through personalized content recommendation through email like Netflix does. I now know that and I can use their first party data to have much more meaningful conversation with their doctor in person? Or if they want it or if it was MSL sees them. So that’s really the power of such hubs and specific video and audio content.

Garth Sundem  16:53

Alright, so owning first party data or your own on site data, that seems like a best practice? Would you say it’s best practice to? Or can you have everything everywhere, all at once, in one way, or you talking about a best practice being to build multiple hubs for multiple purposes? What I’m wondering is if, okay, you know, one funnel people come in, it’s one content hub, you’re a Kol, you’re an HCP, you’re a patient advocate, you’re a patient, can everyone come the same place? Or do you think Medical Affairs organizations need to be building multiple content hubs for multiple purposes?

Bozidar Jovicevic   17:37

Yeah, so that’s a great question. And it’s a strategic decision. We see pharma companies doing one of two things. One, they want to have one stop, especially companies that have multiple drugs in multiple specialties. So they won’t have one stop shop example is Pfizer product called GSK. Pro, Takeda pronominal, is probably about seven companies that have product. So they kind of have everything in one place. And he was really Medical Affairs portals are multiple specialties. So now you have to register there, choose your specialty, and then you have the content. And so it’s, you know, it’s a lot of steps. The other approach is that you actually, especially if you have more than one product in one specialty, we see that like, recent example, that in respiratory or client had three products in the restaurant space. So they decided to actually have a separate dedicated Content Hub, they didn’t want to use the product calm, the dedicated content hub that just for respiratory experts. So if I’m a respiratory expert, I know that it’s designed by a pharma company, but I see that everything is respiratory, it feels like it’s more for me, there are less clicks, I can quickly register and get access to the content. I think everything has pros and cons. I think putting everything in one place across specialties is not the best user experience for doctors. However, it has some other pros, but ultimately, it’s a strategic decision.

Garth Sundem  18:51

Okay. I wonder if that strategic decision depends on knowing how each of these user groups is most likely to find you. What I’m wondering is if, you know, if everyone’s coming in because of a medical specialty, like respiratory, maybe you’d want to have that content hub focus on respiratory, but if everyone is coming in, you know, through a specific product, that would be another sort of acquisition pipeline that you could speak to or if people are coming to you because you are, I don’t know Pfizer or something. That wouldn’t be another reason to build a content hub with certain remit, but okay, anyway. I think that is about as long as we can go on on this. Thank you Bozi for joining us today. MAPS members, don’t forget to subscribe. To learn more about Evermed visit Evermedtv.com, and we hope you enjoyed this episode of the Medical Affairs Professional Society podcast series: “Elevate”.